Amna Nawaz:
President Trump said today that he hoped for a resolution on his threat to annex Greenland. That followed Vice President Vance and Secretary of State Rubio meeting with the foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland at the White House this morning.
But Trump again registered his concern about a perceived threat to Greenland from Russia and China.
President Donald Trump:
Greenland is very important for the national security, including of Denmark. And the problem is, there’s not a thing that Denmark can do about it if Russia or China wants to occupy Greenland. But there’s everything we can do.
Amna Nawaz:
Danish Foreign Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said after the meeting that a working group would be established to discuss a broad range of issues. He also said it was clear that he and his colleague did not manage to change the American position and that it remains clear that Trump wishes to conquer Greenland.
But the people in Greenland and NATO member Denmark reject that. And the threat has deeply rattled the rest of the alliance.
For more on all of this, we turn now to retired Dutch Admiral Rob Bauer. From 2021 until January of 2025, he was the chair of the Military Committee of NATO.
Admiral Bauer, welcome to the “News Hour.” Thanks for joining us.
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.), Royal Netherlands Navy: Amna, good evening.
Amna Nawaz:
So let’s just start with your reaction to those meetings today between Danish and Greenland officials and the Trump administration, and the Danish foreign minister saying there are fundamental disagreements that remain between the parties.
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.):
Well, those remarks are for him, of course, but this is not a new thing.
The United States tried to — a president in, I think, 1867 or something tried to buy Greenland already. And so this is a longstanding wish from the U.S. to have more influence in Greenland. And that is because of the strategic positioning of the geography of Greenland.
If you look at the map from the Polar Circle, then basically you see that Greenland is in between Russia and the United States. And what we see as a result of the global warming is that the waters north of — or the polar — in the polar region are warming up. And, therefore, the ice is melting. And those waters will become navigable.
And that is good news for the merchant vessels that China wants to use to bring its goods that it produces to Europe and the United States. But if merchant vessels can navigate through those waters, then also naval vessels can navigate through those waters. And that would bring — that would allow the Chinese and Russian Pacific fleet to actually come to the North Atlantic much faster than via any other route.
And that is, of course, a strategic risk.
Amna Nawaz:
May I ask you, though, about the perceived threat right now?
Because let me just play for you how the — President Trump talks about the threat from Russia and China at this moment. Here’s what he said this week.
President Donald Trump:
We need that because, if you take a look outside of Greenland right now, there are Russian destroyers, there are Chinese destroyers and bigger, there are Russian submarines all over the place. We’re not going to have Russia or China occupy Greenland, and that’s what they’re going to do if we don’t.
Amna Nawaz:
Also, Admiral, today, the Danish foreign minister said this on that same topic. Take a listen.
Lars Lokke Rasmussen, Danish Foreign Minister:
It is not a true narrative that we have Chinese warships all around the place. According to our intelligence, we haven’t had a Chinese warship in Greenland for a decade or so.
Amna Nawaz:
So, Admiral, who is right on this? When you look at the landscape right now, are there Russian and Chinese warships all around Greenland, as President Trump says?
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.):
I hope you understand that, since I left NATO, I am not privy to — any longer to intelligence as I was in that job.
So I can’t compete with the people in office, both in Denmark and the United States. But what I do know is that the Russians are allowing the Chinese to enter their waters. And they are doing this for a couple of years already. They have combined air patrols with long-range reconnaissance aircraft from both air forces, Russian and Chinese.
They operate together with their coast guards. And this is not just to study polar bears, as General Grynkewich, the supreme allied commander of Europe, said. This is to prepare militarily as well. So this is preparing the grounds. This is getting to know the grounds. This is gaining intelligence, gaining experience in difficult waters, difficult weather.
And so, for the Chinese, this is a great opportunity, where the Russians for a very long time didn’t allow anyone in those waters. And now, as they are becoming more and more of the little nephew in that relationship because of their dependence on China, because of the Ukraine war, where China basically not only gives political support, but also all the raw materials and the parts for the weapons and sensors and ammunition that Russia is building for that war.
So the Russians are so dependent on China that they have to allow China into the Arctic. And I think that is what President Trump is so worried about, that it is not only Russia that is patrolling those waters and is getting access to those waters, but it is increasingly also China.
Amna Nawaz:
So, as I’m hearing you saying there’s a growing threat and there could be a threat, a growing threat against Greenland, would Article 5 protections extended from Denmark, which is a NATO ally, would those not be enough to protect Greenland? Or do you support President Trump’s argument that it needs to be under U.S. control to be adequately protected?
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.):
I don’t think it’s necessary that it is under U.S. control.
This is a territory of the Danish kingdom. Greenland is part of that. And so it is part of the Danish kingdom. And, therefore, it is up to Denmark, and together with Greenland, to work on that.
But in terms of the strategic importance of Greenland and the waters around it, I understand what President Trump is saying. I cannot comment on the intelligence, what he is referring to. But I agree with him that, increasingly, the Arctic is an area where there is no longer high north low tensions.
This is an area where we will see rising tensions in the next couple of decades because of the strategic importance, the melting ice, and also, of course, all the raw materials that are available there, oil, gas, but also a lot of other stuff that can be found there. It’s a rich area in many, many areas.
So I think that is the reason why everybody’s concerned. And that is the reason why now NATO is — if you listen to the secretary-general of NATO, Mark Rutte, he’s talking about a new activity, Arctic sentry, where more and more NATO members can join for activities in and around Greenland to make sure that we have eyes on what is happening there with the Russians and the Chinese.
Amna Nawaz:
Admiral, I have less than 30 seconds left, but I have to ask you. It’s a strange situation here with the U.S. threatening to annex Greenland. Would that trigger — U.S. action in Greenland, would that trigger a NATO response? Are you worried about the strength of the alliance here?
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.):
I think the United States needs a stable and secure Arctic, as they need a stable and secure Atlantic Ocean and as they need a stable and secure Europe.
And I think NATO is too important for the U.S. to have it fall apart as a result of an attack from one ally on another. So I think it is that bad, the results of such an attack, that it will not be in the interest of the U.S. to do that.
So I think NATO is too important to let this happen.
Amna Nawaz:
That is retired Dutch Admiral Rob Bauer joining us tonight.
Admiral, thank you so much. Good to speak with you.
Adm. Rob Bauer (Ret.):
Good night.
